I am genuinely pissed off. I am a liberal democrat who was shaken to the core by 9/11. I was ready to back the administration in pursuit of those responsible. With 96 combat missions, 2 space flights, and retired CEO of a Defense Department think tank, I know the ropes and the risks. What we got was an ill advised and unsupportable war in Iraq. Rove is an idiot.

SPACED OUT

Link! by Umpire : 6:07 PM |

I am completely appalled by Karl Rove's comments. He opposes freedom of speech.

My family has fought in every war this country has ever had and I am a proud liberal. I myself have been involved in Desert Shield, Desert Storm Operation, and other operations pertaining to Iraq from the beginning until the injury (noncombat) that lead to my eventual retirement. I was involved in operations against Afghanistan. My assignments at [withheld] Turkey, [withheld] UK and [withheld] SC provided me with these opportunities.

I have 2 achievement medals commending my actions at classified locations. I'm one of many who have more time in a tent than Bush has in the ANG. He is wrong. His speech was foolish. Giving it at a location where people were ordered not to boo him and to applaud shows rank cowardice. By landing on a military base and never leaving it, he proved he is afraid to face the public.

Link! by Umpire : 6:06 PM |

I'm a Democrat but not a pacifist. I supported pursuing Bin Laden in Afganistan after 9/11; but, I did not see the alleged links to terrorism Bush used to conger up a need to support his vision of preemptive war in Iraq. Consequently, I opposed the Iraqi invasion from the start.

The language I'm hearing from the Bush administration now is precisely like the rationalizations provided by the latter stages of the Johnson adminnistration and the Nixon administration to explain why we should stick it out in Viet Nam. Sad that the same nonsense needs to be repeated to the same effect with no apparant learning form previous mistakes. Failed efforts 40 years ago to Viet Namize that war used the same language and techniques to create a fighting force that proved uninterested in fighting fellow countrymen as we see in Bush's speech and current Rovian efforts to Iragize the current conflict. I guess it's true that those who don't learn from history are fated to repeat it. I would hope that common sense would have prevailed if Bush, Chaney and Rove had actually experienced combat. Perhaps a universal draft is not so bad after all? It seems pretty clear in hind sight that Bush the father and his advisors saw the problems of "owning" a country you invade and topple -- to paraphrase General Powell.

Thanksfor providing this opportunity to allow veterans to share their experiences and views! Carry on

Link! by Umpire : 6:02 PM |

I am the daughter and granddaughter of career Army officers. I had a many-greats-grandfather who raised a regiment to fight for the Union in the Civil War; and since my grandmother was active in the DAR, I obviously had at least one ancestor who served under George Washington in the Revolution.

I was raised on Army bases and thought of the Army as my home town, since we never lived anywhere civilian long enough to feel that we belonged. I attended a church-related college in the Midwest and cast my very first vote for Richard Nixon--I was a true-blue conservative.

Then I went to grad school. In the 1960s. At Berkeley.

For the first time I was exposed to leftist ideas, which at first I regarded as diabolic. But as the decade--and the war, and the civil rights movement--wore on, my attitude changed. Oddly enough, the thing that converted me finally away from conservatism was reading one of the conservatives' sacred books, Burke's REFLECTIONS ON THE FRENCH REVOLUTION. Because most of his arguments were completely irrelevant to said revolution.

In Berkeley, I was considered a fonatical conservative. When I returned to Arizona to visit my father in his retirement, I found myself regarded as a wild-eyed radical. So I think I can safely assume I am right smack in the middle. I have always felt that there was room for debate from all sides--in fact, that that was just what Jefferson & Co. had in mind.

I think there is no question, judging by their actions, that the other side in Iraq are evil. But while fighting them, we must not adopt their methods--terror, torture, and demonization of those who disagree with us. And we must do what Bush, Rove, and their cohorts have failed to do--give the troops what they need to get the job done, or at the very least not treat them as cannon fodder by giving them defective equipment!

I and some friends who belong to a chatgroup about Siamese cats, of all things, have a adopted a Blackhawk helicopter squadron in which the brother of one of our members serves. They are not living the country-club life over there; they deserve everything we can give them: from properly armored vehicles to red licorice (which our squadron fancies). And, most of all, practicing the fair-minded, small-d democratic, reasoned debate that is what they are standing up for.

I have no idea if we will succeed in bringing democracy to Iraq. Since there is no extant democratic tradition to build on, I think it unlikely. But I know darned well that we won't succeed by stifling it at home.

Link! by Umpire : 5:37 PM |

I served in the Air Force from February 6, 1985 - February 13, 1990, under my maiden name [withheld]. I separated at the rank of Sergeant and was stationed at Peterson AFB, CO and Ramstein AB, Germany. [withheld]


I feel it's VITAL that other fellow veterans get the word out that we disagree with the Iraq War and the Bush Administration. What I am most upset about is those yellow ribbons that everyone has plastered all over their vehicles. It means nothing and helps NO ONE. There are countless charities that assist the military and useful ways that people could be really helping our armed services.

We have to fight to ensure that our military is taken care of to the best of our abilities during peacetime and war and that they NEVER AGAIN fight a needless war unless it's absolutely necessary. We need to start holding the Bush Administration accountable for their actions.

Thanks.

Link! by Umpire : 5:22 PM |

I am sick over this totally fake and criminal GOP administration. It is just not Bush, because he doesn't have the brains to think big. He's just a stooge for the GOP (big money) like that moron Reagan. Americans in general suffer under the GOP. Now the stakes are too big to be quiet.

The time has come!!! We must defeat not only Bush with an impeachment, but the whole GOP agenda. Yes, it is class warfare and it always has been-ask Rush Limppaw.

The only answer is----money. give until it hurts to the liberal candidates. The GOP won with money. Bush spent his entire 1st term fund raising. He was fund raising on 9/11 .

More than that-be outspoken at every turn. Don't take anything from anybody about the issues close to the heart of real Americans-family, jobs, health care, honesty in government, education and veterans. They talk the talk, but do not walk the walk. Bush was AWOL and yet is considered a patriot??????????????? He truly was. Two hundred pilots in his outfit and not one-not one could come forward and say he was there for assignments. One did, but he was proven a liar. Remember the Major who said that he saw Bush reading bulletins and magazines near his office??? He was proven a liar. Bush wasn't even assigned there at the dates he quoted. Lies, lies, lies. The whole draft dodging, yellow crew of them should be fired, if not jailed. They think that they are better than us and are above the law-remember "Tricky Dick"?

Stand up America, she needs you.

Link! by Umpire : 4:56 PM |

Dear Karl Rove:

I demand that you resign, immediately. It is beyond
comprehension that any Executive Branch Employee makes
a statement like you made regarding the motives of
"liberals". How dare you question my patriotism, you
whose only service to your country has been to raid
the Federal Treasury to enrich your friends. You and
your pointy headed intellectual friends at the Project
for a New American Century are personally responsible
for 9/11 and for every death that has occurred since.

Your house of lies is tumbling down. Sooner or later
it will all catch up to you and some of you are going
to be tried as war criminals.

Karl you may be good at winning elections, but you are
terrible at governing and future administrations and
future generations will pay the price for the actions
of the traitors running the United States Government
today.

One question Karl, how are you planning on responding
to all of those American, Afghan, Iraqi, and who knows
what country is next, dead that you will meet in the
afterlife? Gonna lie to them the way you lie to those
of us still alive?

Link! by Umpire : 4:49 PM |

Dear Mister Rove,



I’m an old retired army officer; a veteran of two tours in Vietnam. I have a disability from my service there. Several of my comrades did not return from Vietnam. I am also a lifelong liberal Democrat who loves his country and wants nothing more than to see it united and respected throughout the world.



I am simply unable to adequately express in words my contempt for cowards like you and your warmongering friends in the Bush Administration. When my comrades and I were serving our country in Vietnam, you rhetorically supported the war while avoiding military service and placing yourselves in harm’s way. Talk is cheap! And now you are at it again. You and the administration’s young Republicans supporters, champion the war in Iraq. And once again you are willing to support it only as long as someone else fights it. You cowardly unpatriotic bastards! You have no right to question anyone’s patriotism.



I must admit, your strategy of attacking war heroes who stand in George W. Bush’s way has worked thus far on John McCain, Max Cleland and John Kerry. How do you sleep at night? Aside from attempting to rally support for your boss’ failed war in Iraq, what purpose does your attack on liberals serve? It is not only baseless, but extremely divisive.



More than ever, we need a united country, where our constitutional rights are honored and where a two party system flourishes; a country whose citizens respect one another in spite of political differences. As one of the greatest impediments to this taking place, you should resign immediately.

Link! by Umpire : 4:38 PM |

The fact of the matter is more Democrats in the House and Senate are Vets than Republicans so that right there proves Rove is a bullshitter. The G.O.P. starts more wars though and the majority of the left goes to fight them. Rove is not smart he's just a sneaky fat asshole that right wing morons suck his bullshit up like ice cream.

People on the left are more apt to "DO THE RIGHT THING" and are not blinded by greed and false patriotism as the right wing dumb asses are. There is more to being a patriot than waving a flag and putting yellow ribbons on your vehicle. A true patriot questions the action of its government as to if it is going in the proper direction and maybe even giving two or three years of youth to the U.S. Armed Forces. None of which most Repug's do.

Link! by Umpire : 4:25 PM |

Senator Bayh's All America PAC is with you! Keep up the good work.

Link! by Umpire : 2:58 PM |

I read the postings on your blog this morning. THEY ARE TRULY ELOQUENT - SO ELOQUENT - AND POWERFUL POWERFUL STUFF! These voices need to be heard! It would do so much good and be a powerful counter to Karl Rove if the people who wrote would also send their eloquent pieces to their local newspapers LETTERS TO THE EDITOR as well as the NY Times and Washington Post and other major dailies .

You can find the contact information for newspapers at: http://www.newsdirectory.com

We need to get and keep comments like this in the public eye. And share it with your congresspersons, too. Find contact information at:http://c-span.org/congress/guide.asp?Cat=Current_Event&Code=108_CONG

Thank you. Thank you. I was deeply touched and moved by these letters and I know other Americans will be too if they are sent out widely through the media.

Link! by Umpire : 4:36 AM |

Mr. Rove,

Where to begin? There is just so much that is offensive about your comments, and it is made even more offensive because it came from your mouth. You speak flippently about conservatives preparing for war, and yet you have not one day of military, let alone combat experience under you belt.

I had the honor of serving in the Navy for 20 peaceful years. I have many people in uniform to thank for keeping my military service relatively uneventful. I also have many to thank for not carelessly committing troops into combat during that time.

After the tragedy of 9/11, there was a call for action. That call received immediate bi-partisan support. What was questioned by thoughtful people of both liberal and conservative backgrounds was the need for another war in Iraq that was not only NOT related to 9/11, but was NOT related to terrorist threats in any way, shape, or form. Thoughtful people asked before the war for nothing more than time to weigh the evidence, and garner more international support for an appropriate response to the possible threats of Iraq. As we have learned from the Downing
Street Memos, this was never going to happen. This administration, an administration full of "chickenhawks" I might add, was committed to war in Iraq, and showed no signs of letting thoughtful debate get in their way.

One other note Karl; although Mr. Durbin's comments on the floor were spoken with comparisons that were inappropriate, the facts remain that we are torturing prisoners. For you to suggest that American troops are placed into harms way simply because Mr. Durbin's comments are being played on Al Jazeera is ludicrous. American troops have been placed into harms way because this administration is conducting an unneccessary war, and because troops HAVE followed orders that led them to violate
Geneva Convention guidelines. I applaude Mr. Durbin for trying to uphold, however crudely, the values of the Constitution that forbid torture, and provide rights to the accused.

Link! by Umpire : 4:33 AM |

My dad served in WWII, I lost an uncle in WWII, I enlisted in the Navy during Vietnam and served honorably. My DD214 proves that. I'm a Democrat. If so called Liberals did not enlist, we would have another draft and Republicans like Rove might find a family member in the military. It's sickening to see these people wave the flag and cut Veterans benefits. They drive around yelling that they support our troops. Most of them have a yellow ribbon on their car that was made in China. Real patriots have the guts to place themselves in harms way when their country needs them. Wearing an American flag pin on an expensive suit does not support our troops one bit. You can't fight a war with a big mouth alone. It takes guts. The military would be in deep trouble without us Liberals in the ranks. Those who never served should shut up and crawl back under the their rock and cower. I'm sick and tired of these people!

Link! by Umpire : 4:30 AM |

I'm an Enduring Freedom vet and I'm soon to be and Iraqi Freedom vet as well. I joined the Army "Reserves" shortly after 9/11 so I could do my part in the war, and look after one of my high school buddies that was about to be deployed. I've been on active duty since late 2002, doing constant tours. My last one was a stateside tour that I volunteered for because I got home when the recession peaked (late 2003), and no one wanted to hire somebody in the Reserves for fear of losing an employee to the war.

Since then I've volunteered for several liberal groups, such as MoveOn, Democracy For America, and a few local grassroots organizations. I also volunteered with the Democrats for John Kerry.

Whenever I get into an argument with a conservative, the story is always the same. First, they tell me I'm unamerican and unpatriotic. After I show them my military ID and mention I was in OEF, their next response is to say that I'm hurting my fellow soldiers. Then I confront them and ask them what they've done for the troops. Have they petitioned congress to make sure that the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan have all the armor they need? Do they make sure that the Reservists still have jobs when they come home? Do they lift a finger to look out for soldiers families while they're away? Did they even send a care package? So far, everyone I've debated has given me a no to all of these questions.

Then I ask them why they haven't stood up and fought against Bush when he slashed veterans benefits. Why don't they care about troops being undermanned and underequipped in Iraq? Their answer is always the same: Vet's have all they need, and troops in Iraq are doing just fine. Nevermind all of the reports and newspaper stories saying otherwise. Nevermind that soldiers are dying. We're doing just fine over there.

Finally, I ask them why they don't go and fight the war themselves if it is so great. I get all kinds of excuses for this one. If they are over 38 they simply say that they are too old. I respond by telling them "Halliburton is hiring." They make excuses for not wanting to go to Iraq as a civilian.

In the end it's all the same. I'm sure that there are some conservatives out there that do genuinely support the troops. But I have yet to meet one. The ones I know are all wimps who don't have the balls to enforce the policy that they believe in.

Karl Rove is no exception. When I heard his words I was livid. I didn't think the Bush administration could ever say something to make me hate them more than I already do. That changed with Rove's comments.

Don't worry, Karl. While your punk ass is hiding behind the safe walls of the White House, I'll protect America. In the meantime you can kiss my liberal soldier ass.

Link! by Umpire : 9:30 PM |

I'm a Viet-Nam era Air Force vet. The main thing my military experience did besides introduce me to people I would not have otherwise met ( because I was a Republican), was to shape my political and personal thought for the rest of my life. Young Republican goin' in, lifetime peacenik comin' out. If you've enlisted in the military, you know that your buddies are not going to be the people you knew at the country club. They don't go there. Well, I did, but I was basically a draft dodger. Mostly met and hung out with Black,Hispanic and working class white folks with a different perspective...fair number of gays too.

My education was learning to work with and get along with lots of different kinds of people. Karl Rove never got out of the country club mentality. I had an NCO that said to me"That shit will mess you up if you don't take care of it" and he was right!

Link! by Umpire : 9:26 PM |

I am a vietnam era veteran (Navy), my father fought in WWII and my uncle was a marine at Iro Jima. Your recent words about liberals goes against much of what this country stands for. To imply that Bush won the election and therefore enjoys popular support ignores the fact that there were many disturbing problems with the 2004 (and 2000) election, problems that go to the root of what a democracy should be. Your skill at political ju jitsu will, I hope, eventually be your downfall - you tried to use McCaine's strength as a POW against him by saying it made him crazy, you tried to turn John Kerry's service against him, and then tried to cover up GW's AWOL status. Your use of the FBI to gain access to information to be used against your opponents is also against our democratic principles, and is another reason why the Patriot Act, with it's unchecked power to spy on anyone, is so scary.

You are responsible for creating an atmosphere of fear, and for attempting to create a Fascist state. Your innate evil will destroy you.

For GW Bush to choose you for a political advisor does not demonstrate basic moral or Christian values.

I hope the Truth eventually comes out, and that people will realize what a bad and evil person you are. The blood of many (thousands) are on your hands.

Link! by Umpire : 9:22 PM |

There should be an impeachment begun on this president, but it won't
happen.

I'm a Vietnam veteran, 23rd Infantry Division, 1st Cav as Army correspondent. Karl Rove, Bush (who should have received a less than honorable or dishonorable discharge for not completing his wimp Texas Guard duty, and would not have been eligible to run for president) and his staff need to spend some time in the service on the front lines.

They, including chickenshit Cheney, keep saying "we" about this war. They don't have a clue about combat, service, discomfort or honor. Rove should be covered in tar and feathers and placed in stocks in the city square. It's difficult to respect a "war president" or his staff, who's never been anywhere close to combat, or reality. But I'm glad he thinks about it "every day."

Keep up the good work, Rove has got to go. I believe the best way we can support our troops is to impeach Bush and bring some honesty back to the country.

Link! by Umpire : 9:18 PM |

I was with the Public Information Office of the Sixth Armored Cavalry Regiment, United States Army, during the Vietnam War. We boomer veterans resent that our patriotism is being called into question, even though we have voted Republican in some cases over the years. We are over 50 and statistics show we vote. Iraq never was the War on Terror, but it is quickly turning into Vietnam. Coming from a military journalist, everything with Bush and Karl Rove. together since their Texas days, is political spin. Anyone who does not buy into the Administration's quagmire is attacked. You have no idea the anger that is building up with conservatives, moderates and liberals all over the country over the continued evasions from the White House. You did not serve and neither did most of the neocons who got us into this failed occupation. The people that did, like Hagel, are beginning to break discipline and turn on your lies. Colin Powell warned us early. All Bush can do is go hide on a military base stage when he makes his speeches hoping the patriotism of soldiers around will rub off. . Just ask Senator McCain what the Bush campaign did to him in the South Carolina primary. Ask Max Cleland. what the same campaign did to him. Look at the Swift Boaters and what they did to John Kerry. You tell us you support the Troops, and then you cut Veterans benefits.

Link! by Umpire : 9:13 PM |

Now an Army contractor doing communications support for the [withheld], I will soon be returning to [location withheld] Iraq for my second short tour.

Link! by Umpire : 9:10 PM |

Deliver us from Chickenhawks: Rove, BushCo et al:

"Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk." Joaquin Setanti

Among the atrocities they've given us - 100,000 + dead Iraqis and many more thousands of US causalities to come.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

The 'playbook' for warmongering existed before Hitler's Goering's Nuremberg admissions ( All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." )
as evidenced by Twain's Civil War laments:

"Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." - Mark Twain

So, 'we the people' have no one but ourselves to blame ultimately:

"A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." Bertrand de Juvenal

It is 'gut check' time:

"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." George Orwell

Lead us not into temptation:

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." H. L. Mencken

...but, deliver us from evil by organizing politically, shining a VERY bright light on these roaches, and, removing the warmongers majorities from Congress in the 2006 mid-terms before they 'strike' again, and again... Bring ALL BushCo war criminals up on charges, impeaching Bush first!

Link! by Umpire : 9:05 PM |

I served for four years in the USN [info withheld] and sixteen in the
USAF for a total of over 20 years of service. Honorably discharged out of Lackland AFB,TX as a MSGT. For the past several years I've listened to my patriotism
questioned by pundits and talking heads such as Ann Coulter. Surely you've heard of her.

Anyway, what Rove said was no different to what was done to Senator Max Cleland. He lost three body parts in Vietnam yet he lost his bid for re-election due to the campaign against him, by republicans, in which he was compared to bin Laden and Saddam. Also the same thing was done to Tom Dasche. He lost hid bid for
re-election by being compard to Saddam. And don't forget how they trashed and belittled John Kerry's medals.

My point is this: these people attack without shame and they get away with it and it is effective for them. Notice how the above three men lost. That's why Rove attacked liberals the way he did. He knows that he'll get away with it. There is some outrage now but not nearly enough. And soon the cares of this world and events in life will cause many to lose focus.

We need to vote these people out of office but if you get your news from Fox then you might think that the war in Iraq is going fabulously well. Dick Cheney just said the insurgency is in "the last throes" which is a LIE and he knows it but he'll lie to your face again and again and again. I told you they have no shame.

I would suggest that we keep listening to Air America Radio because at least they keep putting the truth out. By the way, my son, a LCPL in the USMC, just got back from Afghanistan so I'm happy about that.

Link! by Umpire : 8:57 PM |

Dear Sir:
I am a veteran of VietNam. While over the years I have come to regret the war's motives, and question just what we gained against all we lost, I do believe that there is one sterling thing I shall take from my years of service: loyalty and camaraderie. Whatever your political persuasion, there are larger truths here that are being ignored.

First: Donald Rumsfeld did the same kind of damage to morale by saying that you fight the war with what you have as Jane Fonda did by embracing Gen. Giap on top of that Soviet tank. We did NOT need to go in as if this were Pearl Harbor and an immediate response were required. Particularly, as events have transpired since everything stated by this administration has been proven a lie.

Second: As a practicing psychiatrist I bitterly resent the implication that giving therapy, as Mr. Rove stated, is tantamount to treason or at the very least lack of patriotism. He takes a very divisive partisan issue that will probably not be laid to rest in my lifetime and trivializes it by putting down the desire to help heal instead of divide and imply that we would all be holding hands singing "Cumbaya" but for the loyal right wing Republican minions standing guard at the gate. Balderdash!

Third: in the brouhaha surrounding Mike Wallace's unfortunate lapse of judgment in his story on Bush's war record, the larger fact that Bush Sr. subverted the intent of the law if not the law directly by "transferring" his son-as he was CIA chief then-to the Alabama Guard right before they were scheduled to be deployed. I was at Randolph AFB at the time and WAS deployed. I did not have the "pleasure" of knowing Mr. Bush then, but I seriously doubt that a man who scores a 25 on his fit rep, virtually the lowest score that a sentient human being can obtain, would have made a decent soldier anyway. If I learned anything about loyalty it was in the bosom of my friends and comrades in another miserable foray in another time and in another place, but eventually with the same results. Not hardly in Washington.

Fourth: this is classic misdirection. So Rove or Rumsfeld or Bush himself stirs the pot, we all huff and puff and what happens? Bush's calumny plays out more secretly in another place in another time. Always keep 'em guessing, right? Any good magician knows that the secret to any magic trick is to keep the audience's attention away from what is really going on. Are Messrs. Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney or Rove that stupid? Hardly. they just know that if you keep someone looking in the front door for the thief in the night you sure as Hell can steal the silverware through a window where nobody's looking.

And as a postscript to Mnkinn, who lambasted a poster a while back: Sir, I fought for your right to say whatever you want to, whenever and wherever you want to. My commanders reminded me more than once that I was there to preserve democracy, not practice it. So it is in the great tradition of this land I hope we all love so well that we can have these rather spirited conversations and even bitterly disagree with each other.

That said, however, how can you condone the bitterness of spirit and rancor that oozes out of Washington every day? This is not about differing viewpoints. It is about a hatefulness and entitlement that basically says "I am right, if you think differently you are a coward, a traitor or just plain stupid".

The God that George prays to each night would surely send a lightening bolt his way for perverting His teachings into right-wing ultra-conservative evangelical absolutism. THAT is not the American way. I am fervently awaiting that day.

Link! by Umpire : 8:49 PM |

My father was a combat wounded veteran of WW2 who was hit while in a B-17 over Germany. He was 90% disabled thereafter. I served in the Vietnam Era, though not the Vietnam war.

Herr Warmeister Rove, hear me and millions like me! I am sick and tired of chicken hawks like you and the Liar in Chief that sits in the White House ordering other people to fight and die in a war you chose. I am tired of people and the right wing hordes who cover their misdeeds by fanning the flames of war in Iraq as you fan the flames of cultural war here at home.

I am tired of you, this evil administration and its ignorant supporters who claim to care about the military. Bullshit!! Support the military?!! You haven't the balls to attend a military funeral. Your supporters don't even want the names of the dead mentioned!

You think war is just about dressing your boy up in a fly-boy uniform and landing on an aircraft carrier patrolling the dangerous waters off the coast of San Diego for a cheap photo op. Wrong! You think war means sneaking into Iraq with a team of Fox news "reporters" to carve a fake turkey at a Baghdad photo op? Playing to the stay-at-home "Support-Our-Troops" "Boycott the French" crowd? Wrong again!

Forget your flags and your shallow bumperstickers! The most important thing you could do to support the military was never send them into an area unless absolutely necessary and you failed at that and you know it. Now you have resorted to the usual fascist strategy....demonize your opponents and question their patriotism. And don't let the truth get in the way. You have plenty of help in that effort but sooner or later truth will win out,hopefully.

You ought to resign and I hope its the first of many including the one who is responsible for this senseless, useless and unwinnable disaster!!

Link! by Umpire : 8:44 PM |

Mr. Rove,

I am a veteran of 22 years service in the US Marine Corps, a patriot with deep love for my country, and an appreciation for the things which have made the United States a great nation. I have been a registered Democrat for all of my adult life, an I embrace those political ideals articulated during the Enlightnment as "liberal." I also consider myself a gentleman -- and have a commission saying so -- so I will not say in public many of those things my viceral response to your words concerning 'liberals' inspire within me.

However sir, I will allow that you are no gentleman. Your words disgrace and discredit those good people who have the unhappy misfortune to share a party affiliation with you. You sully the party of Lincoln, of Eisenhower, and of Reagan with your outlandish and unjustified slanders.

Link! by Umpire : 8:41 PM |

I just discovered your blogsite and am writing to remind your readers that for all our complaining and letter-writing efforts, we must still contact our Democrats
in Washington and urge them to work to ensure we get rid of those evoting machines that leave no paper trail, or all our efforts will have been for naught. Remember, it's who counts the votes that counts.

Like many of your other posters, I too, served in Vietnam, and have been against Mr. Bush's war in Iraq since it began.

I have been a Republican most of my adult life, but I changed parties when Mr. Bush began his chant for war in Iraq.

We must not let Karl Rove get away with his outrageous comments about Democrats.

We simply must find a way to put a Democrat back in the White House in the next election, and to do that, we must get rid of those evoting machines.

Link! by Umpire : 8:37 PM |

"Of course the people don"t want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
--- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials.

Now having put this quote at the beginning of this one can now make the comparison to Karl Rove. We were told that Saddam had WMDs and that he had used them on his own people insinuating that we will be next. "Tell them they are being attacked." Now he has come out with the second phase, "denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." Karl Rove is a history buff of political science and surly he know and worships this stuff. We as the true Patriots of this nation must not let this disturbed man do to our nation what happened to Germany, he is following the same doctrine as Herman Goering. I have fought in the jungles of Viet Nam and war is not a thing one takes a country into for political reasons, or power, or money.

Link! by Umpire : 8:35 PM |

Even if Rove were to read these impassioned comments, it would have absolutely no effect. The man is a liar who will do anything to achieve his goals. Witness the despicable Swift Boat Veterans for Truth slander of John Kerry.

And the really sad thing is most of the country believes this crap.

And did any of Rove or his buddies serve in the military. Of course not. They are too important to put their lives on the line. Perhaps if they did, or if they had to serve via the draft, I can guaranty you we would not be at war today.

Keep the faith. American appreciates what you are doing in Iraq just as much as we liberals despise the lying sons of bitches that started this bogus war. Or the secretary of defense who can't seem to get you the armor you need for your persons or your vehicles.

Link! by Umpire : 8:25 PM |

Thank you for hosting this Blog. Here are my thoughts:

Karl Rove is a name that will surely live on in infamy, despite whatever attempts are made to rewrite history to favor the Bush Administration’s years in power. Men like Karl Rove have always existed, driven by power and ambition, caring little for the truth, justice or the American way. The most important thing to remember about Mr. Rove is not that he is ignorant in his beliefs or words. The man is merely another unconscionable politician whose ranks are swelling; using hate, slander, lies, religion, political division, and card room etiquette to abuse power in order to achieve a goal. He believes little of what he says, but believes in his cause absolutely - truth and honesty be damned. He truly is one of Machiavelli’s best pupils, and no doubt he thinks himself a Prince.

I served in the Navy for eight years, and while I never voted for Clinton I have also not voted for Bush. I am a centrist who finds himself a Democrat for voting purposes here in Florida, although the ranks of Democrats and Liberals must surely be swelling, since they are the monikers applied to all who are left of Bush&Co.’s ideology. Mr. Rove himself is not worthy of my anger, for his words alone are nothing more than rhetoric and media baiting from a man too contemptible to challenge my patriotism or service. The true disgrace belongs to those who were quick to reinforce his words in the public eye, from the President on down - people who knew better but chose to ignore the truth in favor of advancing their personal cause or vendetta.

The government I remember, the one I grew up trusting, the one I served, the one that the Founders thought was a great experiment filled with hope and promise; it has nearly vanished overnight. We live in a house divided when we need compromise and cooperation the most. In spite of the religious browbeating and the lectures on principle, America no longer has a moral compass. Where is the national sacrifice for war, the clamor for Osama bin Laden’s head? Why hasn’t anyone been held accountable for all of the mistakes that have led us to these days, this awful place, and who will justify this means to an end? Today’s priorities will completely mystify the historians a century from now: Tax cuts, Social Security, Iraq’s invisible WMD and our representatives digging a deficit hole like no Republican Congress could have dreamed of only a decade ago. I can only hope that it will be American historians making the commentary, no matter how vile, and not the Chinese or others.

Link! by Umpire : 3:36 PM |

I would like to thank you for providing this forum. I have spent years of frustration listening to those who've never served cast aspersions on the patriotism of those who have. This liberal, and her liberal democrat family have provided many years of service in the armed forces because we have a tradition in our family of contributing in some way to the country we love. At last count: one great grandfather, two grandfathers, one father, one father-in-law, one brother-in-law, one cousin, five uncles, two aunts, my husband and myself. It ends now. None of my children will ever willingly join the military now that they clearly see how true service is denigrated for political gain.

Link! by Umpire : 1:12 PM |

I am a 23 year veteran Senior NCO with more days in tents drawing imminent danger pay than our current president has in verifiable drill days in the TANG.

This administration has pushed me to the left, just to distance myself from the lying the profiteering and hypocrisy of what has become the Republican Party. I’m not here to send war stories, and I am not a trigger puller by trade, but working in the medevac arena these last 4 years has shown me the effects of the evil that Mr. Bush has unleashed on the world.

Link! by Umpire : 1:09 PM |

The most appalling thing about that statement is that he just assumes that the military is a homogenous group. He thinks we are all flag-waving, chest-beating, warmongers. He just assumes we are all card carrying Republicans. Well if we all subscribed to their brand of political philosophy their would be many wars with noone to fight them. Lets look at all of our current republican leaders and idealogues and count how many of them have served in combat. Still looking...yeah you cant find them can you? McCain, Dole, but they arent in charge of shit. President Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld, or VP CHeney. No, No, No, and No. Tom Delay and Bill Frist. No and No. Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, and OReilly...no, no, and no.

It's nice to know that as my wife and I both go to put our lives on the line for THEIR lies, he has the audacity to use our sacrifice for his benefit, and his political gain by impugning our political philosophy. It's bad enough the President doesnt think my wife's religion should be recognized in the U.S. I think its time for these Neo Cons to put their ass, or the ass or their sons or daughters, on the line, in gear, in Iraq.



www.airbyrne.blogspot.com

Link! by Umpire : 10:56 AM |

Karl Rove politicized one of the darkest days in American history, and rather than apologize he says he was "refering to MoveOn.org" or some other lie, and it makes me sick. These neo-cons are causing American men and women to die daily for a lie, they are running up an Enron style debt and they refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

Quote this: Their slow but deadly hemorraging of this country's resources and their naive and boneheaded disaster in Iraq is a much greater threat to our security than al Quada and all the terror organizations anywhere in the world.

Combined.

The mess you have made will take generations to clean up.

Link! by Umpire : 9:11 AM |

Mr. Rove,

I recently returned from a six month tour in Iraq and Kuwait. I'm proud to be a soldier and a Democrat. Your unfounded slur against liberals insults all of us who serve in uniform and hold progressive beliefs. I ask that you do the right and honorable thing and apologize for your comments.

Link! by Umpire : 9:07 AM |

Mr. Rove,

As a member of the Army Reserve who will be leaving to support Operation Iraqi Freedom, and a lifelong liberal, how dare you challenge my patriotism, sir? As I have, to date, not seen you patrol in Bahgdad, nor have I seen you risk convoying supplies to the troops who need them throughout Iraq, where is your courage? I guess you really have none. I have never supported this war, nor the policies that have managed it. Despite that, I will be leaving to serve for my first tour in the country soon. Why, you may ask? Because it is my duty as a soldier, and as a citizen of this nation. Service to a cause greater than yourself is something a coward like you will never understand. The next time you wish to question either
my patriotism, or courage, I suggest you dare to take up arms first. Cowards like you, who expect other men and womens children to fight their wars, deserve to be dragged out in the streets and beaten like the craven dogs you are. May whatever greater power you believe in spare you, because I wouldn't. I will leave you with two quotes that I sincerely hope you might learn something of true patriotism and courage.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt

Goodbye sir. May you rot in Hell with all of the worlds yellow, craven, morally bankrupt cowards.


"Sic vis pacem, para bellum."

Link! by Umpire : 8:58 AM |

Karl, it’s time you shut up and listened. My father was a decorated veteran of FOUR WARS – he fought fascism in Spain, he fought for Israeli independence, and he fought in World War II and Korea with HIGHEST distinction. His chest could have been full of his medals, but he kept them in a drawer out of modesty. My son is CURRENTLY in the Navy, a Democrat fighting Bush’s understaffed and underhanded mother-of-all-messes. “Patriotism is not a showy burst of emotion, but the slow and steady dedication of a lifetime.” -- remember THAT next time you’re feeling like making a stupid remark.



Oh, and by the way? Your ruthlessness in the political world is to be ashamed of. You probably feel smarter than the rest of us, and triumphant because your behind-the-scenes strategies work. But you are a dishonorable man, so none of that matters. In the end, you have to face what you’ve done and how you’ve done it. Which is so morally ugly that you might melt.

Link! by Umpire : 2:36 PM |

Karl,

What the hell have you done in service of this country? I'm a proud liberal and a vet (US Army 91-95). Back when I first took that oath to defend this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic, I never understood what a real domestic enemy to this country could be. Thank you for showing me.

You could never understand what it means to serve this country, or to shed blood for it.

Really trying to keep this clean, but basically sir. Go f*** yourself.

Link! by Umpire : 2:30 PM |

I am a Vietnam Veteran who sevrved in the US Army 4th Infantry Division Company B 3/12 in 1968-1969. I was awarded the Purple Heart for wounds recieved in combat in March of 1969 and I also hold the Combat Infantry Badge.

I am also a Liberal and a Democrat and have been all my adult life. I would like to know who Karl Rove thinks he is questioning my patriotism. He is a chickenhawk with a yellow streak down his back a mile wide who ran as far as he could from military service when called on to serve and he questions other people's patriotism. The only thing that would satisfy me is for Bush to fire him immediatley. Since Bush is another chickenhawk I suppose that that is too much to ask.

Link! by Umpire : 2:22 PM |

I served in the US Navy on active duty from '67 to '71, four years, 8 months, and three days but I was never in a combat zone. I have voted democratic about 80% of the time but I never voted for Bush. I echo the comments already published on this blog. I am concerned that our military traditions are being destroyed by destruction of the chain of command, especially in the US Army, by injection of civilian
contractors into the chain of command, who are not covered by the Code of Military
Justice. The only way Bush, Rove, et. al. can be held accountable for what they have done to this country is at the ballot box. So far, very few Republicans have repudiated Rove's recent comments. These people are not worthy of our votes. Taking back the House and Senate should be the first priority of all Americans, regardless of party. The lesson of Iraq is one we learned as children -- lies get you into trouble. By the way, just because I am a Christian, doesn't mean that I have to check my mind at the door.

Link! by Umpire : 2:19 PM |

Until the last election I always voted a straight Republican ticket. But in the last election I decided on a new and improved way to vote.

From now on I will VOTE OUT every incumbent in every election at every level of government. It does not matter what party. It does not matter if they did a good job or a bad job. They must rotate out of office after one term - in every election. And furthermore, the entire government must be completely purged from dual-citizens. It's that simple.

The real choice is not between Democrat or Republican. The real choice we have is between Individualism and Collectivism. The Democrats and the Republicans both represent and employ Hegelian Dialectical Collectivism. It is vitally important to understand that fact, and to understand the history of how it happened to us.

We need to find a path that will lead us back to American Individualism.

Use anything from my blog that you might find helpful: Life With Flying Monkeys

URL: http://flynomo.blogspot.com/

Link! by Umpire : 2:14 PM |

I am a Viet Nam combat vet and was a moderate republican for 30+ years. The outrage of "shock and awe" converted me to a now registered democrat. The insults of Rove and the neocons are infuriating but the actual Bush/Cheney lies are much worse--in that these lies supported the illegal invasion of a soverign country and the resulting deaths and maimings of thousands. Our country is going bankrupt on tax cuts for billionaires and money borrowed from China.

Link! by Umpire : 2:09 PM |

"Of course the people don"t want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
--- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials.

Now having put this quote at the beginning of this one can now make the comparison to Karl Rove. We were told that Saddam had WMDs and that he had used them on his own people insinuating that we will be next. "Tell them they are being attacked." Now he has come out with the second phase, "denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." Karl Rove is a history buff of political science and surly he know and worships this stuff. We as the true Patriots of this nation must not let this disturbed man do to our nation what happened to Germany, he is following the same doctrine as Herman Goering. I have fought in the jungles of Viet Nam and war is not a thing one takes a country into for political reasons, or power, or money.

Link! by Umpire : 2:07 PM |

I'm writing you from [Location Withheld] Iraq, about 35 miles NW of Baghdad.. And I'm too tired to give Karl the verbal beating he deserves for his insults. I'm too tired because we're jsut a bit shorthanded over here, fighting his war for him. A war taht has made nearly every country in the world fear and distrust America, a war fought for a knowing lie dreamed up by Karl and his buddies, none of whom have ever heard a shot fired in anger, or helped pick up the parts of another human being after an IED blast.

I enlisted after the war beganm and after I'd gotten my degree. I could easily have stayed home and watched the war on TV, and Karl does. I do not support this war in the slightest, but I will not sit at home and lecture others on their insufficient patriotism when the nation is in need. I joined because I believe in giving back some measure of service and devotion to my country.

To hear a man like Karl insinuate that only conservatives are really patriotic is a knife in the back to every man and woman in Iraq who serves here. At least a third of us voted against Bush and pals. The number increases every day that we stay here, forced to make bricks without straw for months on end.

We've been here for 6 months. We're going to be here for at least 6 more. And next week we're moving to a more 'active' sector because the unit there is rotating home and the are is still too hot to entrust to the IA or IP, most of whom are still not fit to guard a traffic light, despite two years of efforts on our part. For some of us, this is our second tour through Iraq. My unit, [Withheld] was the tip of the spear in OIF I. At least half of us are combat veterans of a major battle and liberals. Can any of your gang say that, Karl?

Never insult me and my fellow liberals again, Karl. Watching a fat, hateful thing like you that has never faced any greater danger in your life than a long golf shot denigrate every liberal who has put on a uniform is more demoralizing than ten thousand speeches that uphold America's highest ideals from Sen. Biden or Byrd.

[Name Withheld]

Link! by Umpire : 8:27 AM |

I was honorably discharged from the Navy in 1970. My father fought for FDR and HST in WWII. My grandfather fought in WWI for Wilson.

I live in NY, and when I lost friends in 9/11, my liberal buddies and I would have loved to have Bin Laden in a room with a tire iron. We also supported the Afghanistan action, because that's where the Taliban were.

Then we were heartbroken when President Chimpy attacked Iraq to further his political ambitions, because anyone who hasn't had his head up his ass knows Saddam was not involved in 9/11.

Why is it that Democrat presidents win wars, and Republican presidents whine about them? It's all marketing and PR, and we're the suckers. Bush has no intention of getting Bin Laden.

Rove has got to go.

Link! by Umpire : 8:10 AM |

I spent 11 years serving this country with distinction in the Army. I come from generations of soldiers who have fought in every war this country has had. My ancestors fled from an oppressive government in the mid 18th century after fighting the Second Jacobite Rebellion. My forebearer Sir Robert Keith led the cavalry charge that dispersed the archers that led to defeat the English king at the Battle of Banockburn. My family fought along side of William “Braveheart” Wallace.

I’m liberal because I want a government of the people, for the people. I want a government that serves the common good. I want my taxes to help the community and make it stronger. I want a government that stands for our founders cries for Liberty and Justice! That Fat F#$k Rove (capitals because it is now a proper name I use for
him)questions my Patriotism?!?! He is the traitor. He is the Tory. He has committed sedition. Even after he’s passed on, I will remember his name and make sure it remains in disgrace. I will not allow one person in my presence to ever again justify any support of this craven coward. I want his ass serving on the front line. Fat F#$k...Look me in the eye when you say it!

Question my Nationalism! Question my Imperialism! Question my Fascism! But Never!, Never!, question my Patriotism.

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” - Benjamin Franklin

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt

Link! by Umpire : 7:43 AM |

Huzzah! for this blog. I, too, served in Vietnam; I, too, got shot at (every plane I flew had suffered battle damage); I, too, lost friends to AA; I, too served because my country needed me, not because I believed in the war, and I, too, am outraged at Rove's calumny. I fear for the future of this country if people like him and VP "Tricky Dickey" and Rumsfeld and Bush continue in power.

Link! by Umpire : 7:40 AM |

There're a couple things you learn in a war tour.

First, combat sucks. It's dangerous and scary and usually confusing and, generally, best avoided if possible.

Second, you absolutely need your buddies. To this end, you never ever let them down when they need you. Because when you get in trouble, it's going to be DEEP trouble, and your buddies will be more valuable than gold or liquor.

Third, as long as your buddy is there for you, you couldn't care less if this buddy is gay, black, female, islamic, stupid, liberal, pro-pot, pro-choice, or believes in flying pigs and Jerry Garcia's impending resurrection. It is so totally not important.

Fourth, you're well aware that some of the people you are defending hate you and what you represent. They think you're a jack-boot thug. You don't begrudge them this, though. They're welcome to think whatever they like, and defending that right for them is one of your more noble callings.

These are four lessons that our Republican leadership have never learned. Why?

Because Republicans don't volunteer.

Link! by Umpire : 7:38 AM |

Shame on the Bush Administration for allowing Karl Rove's outrageous statement equating liberals with traitors to stand without apology. Shame on them for not firing Rove outright.

I'm an American woman who served in the U.S. Air Force from 1979 through 1983 and was honorably discharged. I served during a time of peace, but I, like all of the other young men and women who volunteer to serve their country as soldiers, airmen, marines and sailors, knew that there was a possibility we could be called upon at any time to put our lives on the line. This was the Cold War era, when nuclear anihilation was just a push of a button away. I served willingly and with my eyes wide open.

I lived in Germany from 1986 through 1992 with my active duty Air Force husband. While I was there, I worked as a civilian in the Public Affairs Office in Bremerhaven, and was there supporting the U.S. Army troops who were sent to fight in the Gulf War. Although I was no longer in the military myself, my service with the U.S. Army as a civilian in support of our troops and our country is something I'm very proud of. We were doing the right thing, backed by a huge coalition of countries who believed as we did that Saddam Hussein had overstepped his bounds in trying to take over tiny Kuwait and upset the precarious balance of power in the Middle East.

Throughout my adult life I've been a registered Democrat and yes, a liberal. As a peacetime veteran and as a wartime civilian who served her country willingly and with heartfelt patriotism, I am deeply insulted by Karl Rove's outrageous condemnation of those who don't march in lockstep with the religious right, conservative GOP. How dare this man, who like his masters, never served his country in uniform, imply that I and my "liberal" veteran and active duty brothers and sisters are traitors for not supporting this criminal, pre-emptive war we now find ourselves fighting in Iraq? How dare he call any American, veteran or not, traitors for exercising their right in our democracy to speak their minds and disagree with their government? And how dare this president and his administration allow their attack dog, whose generous salary is paid by the American people, stand by and back up his reprehensible words?

My first and second husbands served in the U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Army. My brother-in-law served a full career in the Air Force and is now in Iraq as a civilian, trying to teach brave, doomed Iraqis to be policemen. My uncle served in the Army for 25 years and retired as a general. My father was a Marine who fought in the Korean War, as was another of my uncles. My grandfather fought in World War II in Europe.

All of us, whether liberal or conservative, served our country with honor and pride. Yet not one of us would ever dream of considering any fellow American who merely disagreed with us, politically, ideologically or otherwise, a "traitor" to our country. Protecting the right of free speech and freedom of _expression, after all, is why we served.

Americans, rightly shocked and furious over the senseless carnage and murder of innocents of September 11, 2001, were propagandized, lied to and duped into attacking Iraq, which had nothing to do with the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. More than two thousand American service members -- patriotic volunteers, every single one of them -- have now lost their lives to a lie, many thousands more have been horribly maimed and their lives ruined, and tens of thousands innocent Iraqi men, women and children have been systematically murdered and maimed. And our government will not give us a straight, honest answer why. Instead, we're fed excuses and lies.

I am an American, and until 2000, when George W. Bush was appointed president of our great country, I was proud to be an American. I cannot say that anymore. Since then, I've watched with horror as Bush and his cronies have systematically chipped away at the greatest democracy the world has ever known. America has become a pariah to the rest of the world; how will we ever live down Abu Ghraib, "renditions", the arrest, indefinite detention and torture of thousands without right to a fair trial, the systematic destruction of the world's delicate environmental balance and the outright robbing of the American poor so the American rich can get richer? How can we abide watching Bush -- the president of our country! -- walk hand in hand through the Texas wildflowers with the Saudi prince, the leader of the very country that produced both Osama bin Ladin and most of the Sept. 11 terrorists? How could Americans have re-elected this man in 2004? Duped again.

And now, those of us who react with anger and indignation over these crimes, committed in our names and without our support, are "traitors"? I'd call us patriots in the truest sense of the word.

Shame on Karl Rove. Shame on George W. Bush, John Ashcroft, Alberto Gonzales, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell (!) and Donald Rumsfeld. Shame on the Republican politicians -- elected by the people of this once great country -- who support or stand by and watch this systematic rape of the United States of America, and equally, shame on the Democratic politicians who don't have the courage or morality to speak out against it. These are the real traitors to America. I despair for our children and for all of us.

Link! by Umpire : 1:54 AM |

Really Karl, you prepared for war? How did you do that, play golf or have dinner at the White House? You make the conservatives sound so strong, yet, if I recall Karl, you have never severed. I also recall that your puppet Bush ran to protect Austin from the Viet-cong while his fellow Americans were dieing in the rice patties of Vietnam. Cheney had more deferrals than a tree has leaves. So I ask again, how do conservatives prepare for war?

You prepare for war by jumping on a tragedy to divide America, to further your agenda, to create a war that did not need to be fought. For the love of god, I would have been the first in Afghanistan; we should have turned that nation into a sheet of glass. The fact remains, not a single solitary person on any of those plans that were used against us in September 11th were Iraqi, furthermore most of them were from Saudi Arabia, a nation that we are currently bedding (screwing) our leader daily.

So in short Karl, you prepared for war by running under Bush's desk like a coward. You are a cowered, your boss is a coward, and his puppet master is a coward and the bulk of the conservative are yellow tailed cowered.

I have worn the uniform, I know what it is like to squeeze off rounds from an M-16, I know the joy of having an officer pin a medal to your shirt, I know the hardships of living off of 12,000 a year. I am a liberal and I HAVE PREPARED FOR WAR you [edited] coward.

Link! by Umpire : 1:52 AM |

Every liberal, leftie, Democrat soldier I know is livid at the comments made by chickenhawk, Karl Rove. This site should be sent to every Republican who stood by his treasonous remarks to let them know that they can't win elections without Democrats. No Democrat will support a politician who has not denounced Karl Rove for his hateful and dishonest remarks.

To take a rule from the rightwing playbook, every time someone criticizes their disastrous policies, they invoke 'terrorism' and 'national security'.

So, Karl Rove, you have just told the world that half the population of the US is 'soft on terrorism'. I'm sure terrorists already know that YOU, Mr. Rove and the rest of those Republicans who serve with you, Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz et al, never saw a war they didn't support, but ran as far as they could from the fighting.

What are terrorists to make of this then? Republicans love war, but the rich ones are too scared, like you, to fight in them, and the rest of the country wants to understand them???

You are dangerous to our national security, Karl Rove. You are giving aid and comfort to the enemy and you insult every leftie, liberal, Democrat who ever served this country while you protected your worthless hide. An apology won't do, you need to step down.

I notice the rightwingers are now trying to say he didn't insult Democrats! News flash!! He lied!! That's the point. Liberals and lefties are currently serving in Afghanistan and Iraq! Why did Karl Rove never join the military? Why, if Republicans are 'ready for war' is recruitment so low? Where are all those Republicans?

Apologize and quit, that's the best thing he can do now. I wish he could hear what the soldiers I know, including my nephew, have to say about him. But he would never have the nerve to meet those lefties face to face!!

He disgusts me and shames this country.

Link! by Umpire : 1:50 AM |

I am an Vietnam-era veteran of the Air Force. I too had friends who never came back from 'Nam, and many of those who did were never and will never be the same. My father is a WWII Navy veteran, one brother is a Navy veteran, two brothers are Army veterans, including one who saw combat in the Gulf War.

One of the latter is now a Virgina police officer who spent the entire week after September 11 on-site at the Pentagon.

We may not have all agreed politically in the past, but to a man, we agree that was the reason we all served... that we wanted to protect the right to have an opinion and a point of view.

Karl Rove, who received a draft deferment and never served, has the audacity to smear anyone who does not have the same opinion as he does as unpatriotic and cowardly.

Karl, we have earned the right to disagree. Have you?

Link! by Umpire : 1:21 AM |

I enlisted in the Air Force in 1967, served in Vietnam and stayed in service until 1993, a total of 26 plus years. So that means I was around for Desert Storm also. I consider myself an American before I consider myself a Democrat. And I am not sure I really like the label Democrat or Liberal. I don't owe my allegiance to either of those causes. But I resent Karl Rove playing this game and once again dividing this country for the sake of political gain. When we were struck on 9-11 there were no Republicans and Democrats only Americans. One lone person in Congress voted against going after those who attacked us. That tells me people of all political stripes supported going after those who attacked us. There is only one reason Rove is using this tack now, things are not going well for Bush and he is going to do whatever it takes to reverse that regardless of the consequences. We need people in office and positions of power who put America first, not this sort of trash.

Link! by Umpire : 12:59 AM |

As a volunteer Infantryman who served in the 1st & 6th of the First Division
from 1971 to 1974, I NEVER thought that an administration could be worse than Nixon's...I was WRONG, Cheney, Bush, Rove and the resty of the neocons have raped the Constitution, and everything ANY soldier gave their lives for.

Impeachment is far too nice for these war-criminals, and now we must take back our nation, and put the criminals that have hijacked the White House in prison. Nothing short of that will be justice for the innocent people they have slaughtered, on BOTH sides of the Middle East disaster(s)...

Link! by Umpire : 10:33 PM |

Every military veteran who is not and does not vote Republican ought to be seriously insulted by Mr. Rove's public foolishness this past week.

In no sense does this particular chicken hawk have any history of having been anywhere near war and done anything about it to pretend that his version of
reality has any credibility - let alone any justification for wearing his litte flag on his big lapel.

But, in the spirit of my dog Jake, who knows not to chase the crows when they're trying to distract him from his doggie treats, I'm not going to go too far down the road of distraction about lies and blowhard smoke.

My wife said it best this morning : Rove, a charter member of what Jesus' General describes as Yellow Republicans, should immediately start campaigning to have all democrat/liberal troops who are presumably "unreliable" replaced with Republican/conservative soldiers. An excellent starting place would be the current College Republicans convention.

[Name]
VietNam-Era Vet (enlisted - not drafted - no higher
priorities Mr. Cheney!)
Liberal Democrat
Outraged Patriot
Bane of Chicken Hawks

Link! by Umpire : 10:26 PM |

As a veteran who has worked in military intelligence and counterintelligence under three presidents, regardless of their politics, I find Rove's comments to be not only offensive, but also grossly negligent in their description of conservatives. Conservatives did indeed look at the attacks and prepare for war. What Rove neglected to say was that they prepared for the wrong war. A more accurate statement would have been "Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and immediately saw it as an opportunity to justify their existing PNAC plan of invading Iraq, although Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11." He should have also clarified that while liberals were determined to find those responsible and bring them to justice, conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and announced that they really weren't that concerned about finding bin laden.

The most telling statement that Rove didn't make is that conservatives saw the warnings of the savage attacks of 9/11 and chose to ignore them.

Link! by Umpire : 10:22 PM |

My Grandfather served in the Philippines during WWII (Army). My father served during Vietnam (Army). I served 7
years (USAF) to include Desert Storm and I have friends and relatives currently serving. I have been to Iraq and I am very proud to have worn the uniform, representing my country.

I resent Karl Rove's recent comments as do I the whole Bush admin. attitude towards our military. They bash us at every turn. They say they support the troops and veterans but they have trashed every veteran who dared run against a republican. Just look what they did to Max Cleland and John Kerry. They say they are helping the vets but are cutting veterans services. They say they support the troops but they tried to cut their hostile fire pay and family separation pay even while they were fighting for this country.

I am sick and tired of the hypocrisy and I am sick and tired of being called anti-American or unpatriotic, simply because I do not support this illegal, pre-emptive war which was based on lies. I would have given my life for this country and I will always support my brothers and sisters in uniform whenever and wherever they are called to serve.

The words may come easy for those who have never served in uniform or fought to defend our freedoms and ideals but their actions speak ever so loudly.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - President Theodore Roosevelt


"I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its STUPIDITY." - Dwight Eisenhower

And the question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth? And the answer is not very damned many."
[Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney, remarks to the Discovery Institute, 8/14/1992]








Kenneth Blagburn

Link! by Umpire : 10:17 PM |

Marines from 84-91.

I would classify myself more as a libertarian than liberal, but I still feel Karl should resign.

I made me sad for my country when the White House backed up what he said.

Link! by Umpire : 8:43 PM |

As a Navy veteran who served in the Vietnam era, as a man who grew up in the 60’s and who had boyhood friends that never came back from Vietnam, and as a life-long, dyed-in-the-wool, liberal Democrat I extremely resent Karl Rove’s statement. I just hope I never end up in the same room as that scum.

Link! by Umpire : 8:29 PM |

I served in the Marines in the infantry from 1986 to 1991, and I saw combat in Panama and the Persian Gulf. And I'm a liberal. I'm a liberal precisely because of my service and because of my experience.

Karl Rove is too obtuse to understand the complexities of the issues of which he so cavalierly speaks. Yet he is all-too-willing to sacrifice the lives of American service men and women in the name of his simplistic merry-making with U.S. foreign policy and militaristic shenanigans.

I am most upset with Karl Rove's insipid declaration that anyone who didn't feel the need for blind revenge is somehow less than patriotic. I understood my service to my country to be based upon the belief that we would uphold the American ideal that we will always seek to set the standard for the rest of the world to follow--liberty, humanity, civility, forthrightness, and dignity. Mr. Rove's comments besmirch anyone who seeks to have those ideals upheld.

Like Richard Nixon, Mr. Rove is a disgrace to the United States, is a stain upon American history, and serves no useful purpose within the public discourse of rational persons.

Mr. Rove needs to resign immediately. An apology is not sufficient to assuage the insult he levied upon America, nor can his continued service within the administration be tolerated.

Link! by Umpire : 8:22 PM |

My father was in the Air Force, my Father in Law served under Patton, and both fall into the "liberal" label.

On 9/11 my friend lost her daughter in the plane that went down in PA. She is a "liberal." I sat next to Pat Tilmans mother at a wedding, she had been very active in local politics, for the Democrats, she is a "liberal."

My friends have lost a daughter and a son, my family has fought for this country, and Rove has the nerve to say that we don't want to protect our country? What greater offering is one to give then their life? What service does Rove have? Has he lost a child to the war?

It is time for America to wake up, we cannot stand together if one side continually divides us, if one side seeks to claim "ownership" on pain, suffering and the ability to make the "correct" decisions.

It was not "liberals" who lied about why we had to go to this war (WMD), it was not "liberals" who denied veterans funding for hospitals (Democrats in congress were voted down), and it never will be "liberals" who seek to justify torture and abuse of people for any reason.

There is no justification for continuing to make this political. Who is going to volunteer to serve in the military, to serve a country that is led by people who think "liberals" aren't worthy Americans.

FDR was a "liberal" and he won WWII, blood is blood, and the number of those who were killed on 9/11 included many liberals who deserve more respect then to be used by Rove for political power. Has Rove no shame?

Link! by Umpire : 8:18 PM |

My family doesn't go around making a big deal about
being a military family, but at a recent family get
together we ended up talking about Karl Rove's
comments about us "liberals," and we realized that our
family had between us over 15 years worth of military
service.

My father served for six years as a pilot in the Navy
during the Vietnam War, my father-in-law was an NCO in
the Army Reserves for 6 years in the pre-Vietnam War
era, and my uncle served for four years in the Navy
during the Vietnam War.

Along with all this military service, my family
probably votes democrat 75% of the time, even though
we don't consider ourselves extremely partisan. We're
always willing to give the other side a fair hearing
and we've been known to vote for a Republican every
now and then. But apparently, in the eyes of today's
far right conservative Republican party, we deserve to
be demonized for being "liberal."

How are we "liberal?" We oppose the corruption,
cronyism, and fiscal irresponsibility of the GOP. We
don't like the takeover of the GOP by right-wing
religious extremists. And while we differ amongst
ourselves about whether or not the U.S. should have
invaded Iraq, we all agree that the Bush
administration has badly and incompetently managed the
occupation. As a family that directly experienced the
Vietnam War, it's very painful to watch this war.

Needless to say, my family strongly resents Karl
Rove's comments. Karl Rove never served, my family
has. If Karl Rove and the Republican Party wants to
villify my family, so be it. If the GOP doesn't
consider us worth persuading, doubts our "motives,"
and calls us traitors then fine, you've made deciding
who to vote for in the upcoming years very easy.

This American family is voting a straight ticket:
Democrat.

My family's message to Republican candidates on the
city, local, state, and national level is simple: You
call us traitors? Don't even think about asking for
our vote.

Link! by Umpire : 6:05 PM |

Karl Rove has no right to sit in judgement against "liberals" for their service to our nation. I'm a Navy Sailor who has served for over 14 years, and who was in fact involved in the first strikes in Iraq (a war which I now disagree with). I have always done my duty, even when I did not agree with the political reasons behind what I was doing. Karl Rove knows nothing about service to his nation; he is one
of those who is content to exercise the rights that others have sacrificed to secure for him, and then to criticize the very people on whose back those rights were won.

Karl Rove does not speak for me or my viewpoints. He is an embarrassment to the United States of America.

[Name and Email Withheld]

Link! by Umpire : 2:34 PM |

I too am an honorably discharged Vietnam veteran, with two nephews in the Army currently stationed in Iraq. Every day, when I read about American troops getting killed over there, I dread the thought of receiving a phone call from my brother telling me that it was one of his boys that "got it". I've thought this war a huge mistake from the beginning, but I haven't shared my opinions with my nephews (who I send care packages to every week) so as not to demoralize them. Now that fat f**k Karl Rove is questioning my patriotism. Do you have any loved ones in Iraq, Karl? Have you put your ass on the line for your country? The same thing, of course, can be said about Bush. I don't see Jenna and Barbara signing up to fight in Iraq. And yet, these SOBs dare to say I'm not a true American because I'm a political liberal.

The tide is turning, and Americans are finally seeing just what the hell is going down. It ain't going to be pretty.

Link! by Umpire : 12:03 PM |

Mr. Rove,

Like all Americans, I remember clearly where I was when reports of the attacks of 9/11 occured. A friend awoke me with a bang on the door in the middle of the night, and everyone in the building was soon watching the footage of the attacks on a scattering of TVs. Some folks stayed up for several hours, but myself, I went back to bed. I knew that I would need my sleep for the next day's alert and whatever would come with that.

It might suprise you, Mr. Rove, to know that a card-carrying liberal was not merely jumping at the chance to defend his country on 9/11, but that I was already there, rifle in hand. However the plain fact of the matter is that the bleeding heart contingent is well represented in the rank and file. If you had ever served, Karl, you would know this, and know how foolish your statements to the contrary sound.

Thousands of liberal men and women join the army knowing that they will be forced to serve silently, honoring the ideal of a non-partisan military that obeys the orders of our nation's elected leaders. With your bitterly partisan remarks, you repay them with a stab in the back by ignoring their service and pretending that the military is a conservative organ of government.

It is reprehensible to see the tragic loss of life from 9/11 and the subsequent wars our soldiers have been sent into degraded into partisan fodder. Is this a calculated payback against those soldiers that dared to commit treason by voting against President Bush in 2004? To have their lifes and sacrifices forgotten and their beliefs maligned and ridiculed by a government official?

Apologize to the servicemen and women who died defending their country, liberals included, and apologize to America, Karl Rove. Your comments sicken me to the core, and I pray that if my two children ever decide to serve their country as their liberal mother and liberal father ever did, their service will not be mocked by a craven chickenhawk who has never worn a pair of combat boots.

Jordan Tabb
American, Veteran, Bleeding-Heart Liberal

Link! by Umpire : 11:40 AM |

I'm an honorably discharged, Vietnam-era veteran of the U. S. Army. Rove was and is a chickenhawk, as are all of today's young republican cowards who want other people to fight the war they demanded.

Rove and any other fascist asshole who wants to call me a traitor, or accuse me of anything else they made up, is welcome to come and say it to my face. Otherwise, they can shut the hell up and move to Argentina with all the other nazi and confederate holdouts.

ChristianLibrul
http://notinmybible.blogspot.com

Link! by Umpire : 11:22 AM |

I think part of the problem is that alot of us on the good side of the fight already knew, as soon as the Rove quotes hit the Blogosphere, that his words were meant to be merely a distraction. Nothing more and nothing less.

Meanwhile back at the ranch... Bush managed to get some really nasty cuts in Medicare and other important social issue budget cuts today... Rove is just trying to take the heat off of legislators, cheney's lying mouth ("the last throes") and bush failures. OH... And he distracted the left from Downing Street...

Hook, line, and sinker... Rove made a calculated statement, much like Dean has been doing recently, and the left swallowed the bait, the line, the rod... Now they are choking on the reel! lol

Link! by Umpire : 11:17 AM |

Listen, I'm pissed as hell at Rove. I am a democrat and have been forever. (I'm 54) ... my two kids who just happen to be in the US Army serving are also democrats. My son and daughter both joined as soon as they possibly could after 9/11.
So far they are both safe from harm (no thanks to Rove...).

My son and daughter both emailed me last night wanting to know just who in the hell the Rove guy is. They both want to plaster his face everywhere around the bases they are stationed. It seems that Rove didn't know that a good percentage of enlisted folk were Democrats. They like to say around the bases that republicans don't volunteer.

'Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 in the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers.'

[snip]

Mr. Rove also said American armed forces overseas were in more jeopardy as a result of remarks last week by Senator Richard J. Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, who compared American mistreatment of detainees to the acts of 'Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime - Pol Pot or others.'

'Has there ever been a more revealing moment this year?' Mr. Rove asked. 'Let me just put this in fairly simple terms: Al Jazeera now broadcasts the words of Senator Durbin to the Mideast, certainly putting our troops in greater danger. No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals.'

Link! by Umpire : 9:13 AM |